TRANSCRIPT: TV INTERVIEW - SKY NEWS - DEC 10, 2020

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH PETER STEFANOVIC
THURSDAY, 10 DECEMBER 2020

SUBJECTS: Scott Morrison’s scheme to cut workers’ pay; cashless debit card legislation; reshuffle.

PETER STEFANOVIC, HOST: Now joining us live is Tony Burke, Shadow Minister for Industrial Relations. Tony, thanks for joining us this morning. So is it fair to say that Labor smells blood on this one?

TONY BURKE, SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS: I just can't believe the government would describe something as modest. It's not a modest change if you're an aged care worker who could stand to lose $11,000 a year through this change. But that's what they’ve put in black and white in their legislation - that for the next two years for any business that has been in any way affected by the pandemic, every allowance, every penalty rate, is up for grabs. And if you get rid of something called the better off test, it's pretty clear what happens. It's a pay cut, and nothing other than a pay cut. And after the year that people have been through, and how cash-strapped people are at the moment, I think for the government to describe it as modest really means they have no understanding of what's going on out there.

STEFANOVIC: What comes first, the business or the jobs? Because without business and the Prime Minister made this point yesterday during question time, without business, there is no job. So doesn't something have to be done to get the business going again? At least for the next couple of years while we get over the pandemic.

BURKE: Australia has never been a country where you've had a race to the bottom on wages. There are countries in the world where they say that's their pathway. We haven't been that sort of country. And we shouldn't be that sort of country. Let's not forget that the economy is doing well enough that the government says it's time to withdraw JobKeeper. The economy is doing well enough that the government says it's time to cut JobSeeker back to $40 a day. But then they say, oh but the economy is now doing so badly we need to slash wages for the exact people who've been the heroes of the pandemic. Both can't be true. What's happening here has nothing to do with the pandemic. What's happening here is the government is using the cover of the pandemic to put through an industrial relations change that they've always believed in.

STEFANOVIC: It looks as though the government may be retreating on those BOOT changes, though. Which part of the omnibus bill Tony would you like to see changed?

BURKE: Well, we only got it yesterday. So there's a whole lot of areas where we’ll work through the detail but certainly on the issue of suspending the better off test for two years. That is a pay cut. And we are not supporting legislation that involves cutting people's pay after the year they've had.

STEFANOVIC: What if they take that out, take that out, would you support the rest of it?

BURKE: Well, as I say, we only got it yesterday so we’re then in a position of going through detail by detail on the rest of it. Can I say – I don't believe that the government is actually getting rid of this section. If they are, they'll withdraw the bill today and reintroduce it this afternoon without that section in it. I think what we've seen today is a bit of media management that they want everybody to look somewhere else, and not at this exact measure. They put this measure in deliberately. They drafted the legislation so it would apply to almost every business in Australia deliberately. There's a bit of media management going on today. But we'll see by the end of the day, whether they've withdrawn the bill and brought it back in without that section. I reckon, there is every chance that we go into this summer break with that pay cut still there in black and white.

STEFANOVIC: Okay, I just want to get your reaction to the cashless debit cards. There was a win of sorts for the government last night. What's your reaction to that, the fact that the trials will be extended for another two years?

BURKE: First of all, this cashless welfare card, the Prime Minister has indicated that he wants it to go nationwide, they then sometimes deny it, sometimes they say they will. As it's functioning at the moment, two thirds of the people on it are First Nations, 83 per cent Northern Territory. The way it's being implemented at the moment, you can see why a whole lot of people feel targeted on the basis of race for the way it's being implemented. But I think the most compelling argument was offered by a Liberal backbencher, who said that the Liberal Party might talk about people having personal freedoms but that doesn't seem to apply if you're poor. And on this card, people have been prevented from getting the cheapest price for their basic goods. And it shouldn't be extended. It certainly shouldn't become permanent. The government didn't get everything they wanted yesterday but they still got more than they should have.

STEFANOVIC: So is that Is that what you believe, though? Do you believe that it's fundamentally a racist policy?

BURKE: Well, I've given you the stats. I can't think of many policies that are punitive, where you would apply it two thirds only to people who were First Nations people. People can look at those numbers and make their own conclusions.

STEFANOVIC: Okay. Just finally, Tony, I just want to ask you about a Labor reshuffle. What are you expecting to happen to Ed Husic? Surely he won't be staying where he is?

BURKE: I don't know where he'll go but I'm a former agriculture minister myself. And Simon Crean was an agriculture minister. So Ed is doing a fantastic job at the moment in that portfolio. Anthony will make whichever decisions he does, he'll wait until the government has done its own reshuffle. I used to comment in my part of Sydney that the only time people were engaging in agriculture if they were the police would come around and remove the hydroponic equipment. But you don't have to be from a huge agricultural area to take the job seriously, spend all your time out there, in the bush, on people's properties and make sure that you're listening. Ed’s got all those characteristics.

STEFANOVIC: Okay. Good note to leave on. Tony Burke, appreciate your time this morning. Thanks for joining us.

BURKE: Great to talk.