TRANSCRIPT: TV INTERVIEW - SKY NEWS - DEC 9, 2020

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH KIERAN GILBERT
WEDNESDAY, 9 DECEMBER 2020

SUBJECTS: Scott Morrison’s pay cut, IR changes.

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Is Labor basically trying to reheat the WorkChoices campaign of a bit more than a decade ago?

BURKE: I think the government's trying to bring back elements of that legislation. Effectively when, you had the question today from Ged Kearney, about an aged care worker who would stand to lose $11,000. Because of the changes that were introduced today. I think that says at all, about what the government has lobbed up in front of people, you know, the Better Off Overall Test is what they're wanting to suspend for two years. And the Prime Minister wouldn't even defend it. He wouldn't even argue the reasons to justify the pay cut that they've brought in today. But be in no doubt. It'll be frontline workers, the heroes of the pandemic, the people who work the late nights and weekends, are the people who are under direct attack by what was introduced today.

GILBERT: The Fair Work Act already has provision for employers to be able to, in exceptional circumstances, to not have, you know, honor the Better Off Overall Test, the BOOT as it's known. So already, there are measures in place this, and it was put in by Labor, under exceptional circumstances. So what's different between that and what Christian Porter is saying here, essentially circumstances under which a business has been affected by COVID-19?

BURKE: What's already there is unbelievably tight and unbelievably rare. I think Christian Porter made the comment today, something like four cases under the previous government or something like that. What was drafted was very tight. What they have brought in today, it's difficult to think of a business in Australia that would not be covered by it. Like in his media conference, he made all these comments about turnover and cuts and all of that - none of that in the bill. All that's in the bill is the business has to have been affected by the pandemic. Now, some businesses have done well out of the pandemic, they've been affected, they're covered too. It's hard to think of a business in Australia, that is not covered by what was introduced today. And the impact of what was introduced today allows agreements where not just some workers on a new agreement are worse off – where every single worker who is covered by an agreement is worse off. That would become legal.

GILBERT: The Minister does say and quite rightly point out that it's the Fair Work Commission who would have to make a judgement as to whether or not an enterprise bargaining agreement was reasonable under this legislation. So you do have the independent arbiter who would be looking and monitoring and guarding against ripoffs, would it not?

BURKE: Two things on that. First of all, the Fair Work Commission, we can't talk about it without acknowledging the stacking of the commission. It used to be that you'd have equal numbers of people who traditionally had represented the employee side of the bargaining table on the employer side of the bargaining table. Out of the 46 positions on the Fair Work Commission, because of the stacking by this government, we're now down to 12 out of the 46, who have a history on the employee side of the bargaining table. The last 20 appointments, not one of them has been -

GILBERT: So you don’t trust them?

BURKE: Well I think you need to say in the first place, the government has been stacking the commission. But the second thing, which goes to the question that you just raised Kieran: why give the Fair Work Commission permission and new laws to cut pay, unless you want them to do it? Because if the government doesn't want workers to have their pay cut, then don't bring in new laws saying to the Fair Work Commission, now you can cut the pay for the frontline workers, the heroes of the pandemic, the people that just carried us through.

GILBERT: The answer to that question would be, the Minister would say, the reason they're doing that is so that businesses don't cut jobs. So they might cut pay, but in the interest of keeping people on the books. The example he gave was tourism industry in Far North Queensland with the Great Barrier Reef and obviously, international tourists, it’s not happening in the foreseeable future. So his argument it would be, that's why they're doing it.

BURKE: Let's think of the mixed messages coming out. So Christian Porter at the moment is running that argument – to say that the economy, everything so tough out there, we need to cut wages. At the same time that Josh Frydenberg is out there saying the economy's doing so well it's time to cut JobKeeper and cut JobSeeker. Both can't be true. But both are being run as arguments by the Australian Government except with one exception, which is today the Prime Minister's denying that the wage cuts are happening at all on the same day they introduced the law.

GILBERT: You also said that in terms of moving from casual workers on to part-time or full-time that the provisions within these amendments are too broad that you think in your words, you could drive a truck through them. But isn't the risk here of not having measures? They are changes in that direction, they do afford at least some opportunity, some pathway of certainty from casual to part-time or full-time work. If you make it too onerous though doesn't that risk a scenario where, say, a casual worker gets to 10-11 months, and then is about hit this threshold where the employer has to move them to part- or full-time work? And they'll just say, okay, I'll get my next casual worker, they'll move them on to the person who loses their job. That's the risk.

BURKE: Yeah, and I hear what you say there. And you do want to make sure you get that particular balance right. But no matter where you draw the line on that laws only matter to the extent they're enforceable. And what was introduced today has no remedy for the casual where the boss says you can't become part-time, for the very simple reason that arbitration is only if the employer agrees to it. So the employer if they want to be difficult, just says, well, I'm not agreeing to arbitration. And what's a vulnerable casual worker meant to do? Are they then meant to say that well, I'm now going to take you to the Federal Court of Australia? There'll be some people with the backing of a trade union who will be in a position to take it further. But most vulnerable casual workers will simply be in a situation where they have to take it or leave it.

GILBERT: Do you think this is an ambit claim, basically, from the government, and that they will compromise through the Senate inquiry process?

BURKE: Can I say it's a ridiculous bill to use as an ambit claim. They spent months saying that Scott Morrison thought he had something to do with Bob Hawke, and they're going to achieve this new consensus and have unions and employers sit down together and work things through. The issue that we've come out today objecting to, wasn't even raised at any of those meetings, at any of those groups. So what the government's done, is spend months telling us they want a consensus, they want people to work together, and then they wait till today and they say, by the way, we're declaring war on people's wages.

GILBERT: The Minister is adamant, though. It's only going to be a handful of scenarios where these laws will be applicable. What do you say that?

BURKE: That's not what the law he introduced says. Like the Minister is saying it'll be a handful of scenarios, the Prime Minister’s saying it'll never happen. Well, what's the law for? The law that they've introduced really specifically gets rid of, for two years, the Better Off Overall Test for any business that's been affected by the pandemic. Now, when you do that, you do it with your eyes wide open, that every shift penalty, every weekend penalty rate, every other allowance is now up for grabs. And what happens to the good employer? The good responsible employer, who doesn't want to let down their workforce, tries to keep wages at the current level as people are coming out of the pandemic, but they have a competitor then becomes part of the race to the bottom. What is being announced today isn't good for the responsible employer. And I'll tell you what, it's a complete slap in the face for the workers have carried us through.

GILBERT: So, finally, let's be frank, the Opposition Leader has struggled to make ground against the government. It's been a pandemic, I can see that. And I know that those strong supporters of Anthony Albanese say you've got to give him a chance outside of this current context with COVID-19 and all that sort of thing. But do you think this gives him a political lease, a new lease on life, essentially, because he's got something to grab a hold of?

BURKE: First thing, even over the last 12 months in the middle with the pandemic having run our position has improved. Secondly, you look at the Oppositions across the country, you're hard pressed to find an Opposition that's doing better than the federal Opposition here in Canberra. But the final thing on what you said - I don’t think anyone from the Labor Party looks at this legislation and sees it as an opportunity. We’re offended on behalf of the people who we’re here to stand for, that the government, after people have been through the toughest year of their lives, gives them a Christmas present of a pay cut.

ENDS