TRANSCRIPT: DOORSTOP INTERVIEW - SYDNEY - SATURDAY, 14 MARCH 2020

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
DOORSTOP INTERVIEW
SYDNEY
SATURDAY, 14 MARCH 2020
 
SUBJECTS: Coronavirus. 
 
CHRIS BOWEN, SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH: Good morning, everybody and thanks for coming. I'll make a few comments before my friend and colleague Tony Burke. 
 
Obviously we know from international experience that the earlier substantial measures are taken to avoid social contact, minimise social contact, then spread of this disease can be minimised. It's absolutely vital we stop this disease taking hold in Australia. Tough decisions now can avoid much tougher times for the country in the weeks and months ahead.
 
That's why yesterday we suggested that event organisers seriously consider cancelling postponing events or making them spectator free. That's why Anthony Albanese and I urged the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee to advise Government and the Australian people urgently about cancelling events and we're very glad that they did so yesterday afternoon. This is a tough call but the right call. I understand many people are disappointed about various events.
 
But as I said, tough decisions now avoid much tougher times later.
 
I was disappointed in fact, gobsmacked, that the Prime Minister indicated he would still be attending the football after the advice from Australia's chief medical officers. Yes, the advice only formally comes into effect on Monday. But leadership is about more than rules and regulations. It's about the example you set. I understand that Scott Morrison wanted to go football so did Anthony Albanese. I like to go to the football too. But as soon as that was clear as that advice was clear, I thought it was a gobsmacking lack of judgement for Scott Morrison to continue to insist that he was going to go the football sending a terrible signal and message to the Australian people.
 
And then, now that Scott Morrison has changed his mind, he's saying it's because it could be ‘misrepresented’. So apparently it's the fault of the Labor Party, or the media, or somebody who might misrepresent his views. Well, the fact of the matter is, it's right that he doesn't go to football but he should have made that decision much earlier and of his own volition.
 
Secondly, of course, we have the news that Peter Dutton has been diagnosed with COVID-19. Now, of course, we wish him the best. This is not a pleasant disease. And you know, he's in our thoughts. We wish him all the very best and his family. 
 
I've been concerned about the mixed messaging and the apparent inconsistency that the approach that the Prime Minister and Cabinet are taking, which is different to the approach recommended to members of the public. We're told the Government has advice that they don't need to be tested or self-isolated, because there was no immediate contact in the 24 hours prior to symptoms emerging. Now the public advice the isolation guidance, the guidance to people who have close contact with a confirmed case says nothing about any 24 hour period. It simply says that anybody who's been in close contact should be self-isolated. 
 
Now, there is a lack of information before the Australian people and this confusion makes it worse. 
 
It is not appropriate that there's any double standards at play. It's not appropriate that there are any different rules put in place for the Prime Minister or the Cabinet than every other Australian. There's plenty of Australians, whether they've been on the Diamond Princess or come from overseas or been in close contact, who have had to self-isolate out of an abundance of caution. Scott Morrison must clarify and confirm today, whether the advice has changed to the rest of Australians. 
 
If he doesn't need to be tested and self-isolated. If the cabinet doesn't need to be tested and self-isolated. Then the way the rest of the Australian people respond should also be amended to reflect that advice. 
 
Again, I stress with Peter Dutton the best, but this confusion and this apparent disconnect between what they are doing and what they are telling others is very concerning, it is not good enough for Scott Morrison to say ‘do as I say not as I do’, he must lead by example. 
 
Now we've been clear, we give the Government support for the steps they've taken. We have called for more. There needs to be much more public information and advertising much more quickly. The first Australian diagnosis was January 25. We've been dealing with this for weeks. Ads can be turned around quickly, ads can be placed quickly. We're only now seeing a trickle of advertisements and public information, much more could have and should have been done. The telehealth rebate does not go far enough. The fever, the respiratory clinics are too slow in rolling out. Much more can and should be done. We will support the Government in what they do, but we will also do the responsible thing and call on them to do more.
 
Tony is going to deal with some industrial relations aspects and then we'll take your questions. 
 
TONY BURKE, SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS: Thanks Chris. I want to touch first on some issues about the workforce generally and then specifically on those working in the arts, entertainment and major events industries.
 
First of all, on the workforce generally, there is a problem that arises for people who do not get sick leave that has still not been resolved by the Government. The Government, I appreciate, doesn’t understand how casuals live, and people who are in the gig economy. We had the comments, the breathtaking comments, from Christian Porter claiming that people get their casual loading for these sorts of circumstances. I’m yet to meet the checkout operator who tells me they’re working because they’re saving up for the pandemic. But the challenge that the Government needs to fix is not simply an industrial relations one, it is a health one.
 
We cannot have a situation where people have a financial incentive to turn up for work when it’s in the interests of everyone’s health that they don’t turn up. And we still have a situation where, for casuals, as long as what they would earn by going to work is more than $40 a day, they have an incentive to turn up, and are being forced to choose between paying their bills  or protecting the health of their fellow workers. Don’t forget, the most casualised industries are the industries generally where you have the most contact with the public. So there is a huge interest, national interest, in making sure that this incentive is fixed. But at the moment, with the way the Government has designed their current proposals, we still have a problem that casuals have an incentive, even when sick, to turn up to work at the risk of their fellow workers and at the risk of every member of the public they come in contact with.
 
I’d also say with respect to members of the public when you’re in those situations … I’ve heard it anecdotally, I heard it personally yesterday from a checkout operator I had a conversation with at a Coles supermarket, please for all the frustration that people are feeling at the moment, don’t take it out on the checkout operator, don’t take it out on the retail worker, don’t take it out on the workers who are simply doing their job. Levels of abuse always arise in busy times but what is coming through now is much worse than in the worst of the Christmas period in terms of the abuse people are taking on the front line. Please, please treat the workforce with respect, they’re just doing their job in a difficult time even when they become the front line of having to enforce limits on purchases and things like that.
 
The final thing I want to say is with respect to the arts and entertainment industries. People in these industries live gig to gig, they live shift to shift, they live event to event. With every major event cancellation, the public attention goes straightaway to what does that mean for the people who were going to attend and making sure they get their ticket money back and I completely understand that. But what’s happening now is a series of artists, of road crew, of people who run the food stalls – they are watching the next few months where they had a line of income locked in, they’re watching it disappear. And this government still has no plan for that sector. These are the same people, the same industry that only months ago was providing free benefits for bushfire victims. They are about to face an extraordinary challenge. 
 
The Government needs to have a plan to deal with the people whose employment relies on festivals, on gigs, on major events, on sporting events. These are people who are always the first go to when we’re asking people to work for free to benefit in other good charitable causes. Right now they are about to face … and whenever they normally hit a gap, a whole lot of these individuals are people who then turn to the hospitality industry for a job, the exact industry that’s going through significant downturn. So, the Government must come up with a plan to deal with this section of the workforce. We only think of it often in terms of the superstars, as being the ones reliant on the entertainment industry, this is a huge industry and event after event is now being cancelled, there needs to be a plan for the workers in that industry.
 
BOWEN: Thanks Tony, over to you folks. 
 
JOURNALIST: Are there members of the Federal Labor Party being tested for Coronavirus or in self-isolation?
 
BOWEN: I am aware of only one, Tanya Plibersek attended the Universities Australia conference. There was a report that somebody was at their conference had tested positive. Tanya immediately sought advice, self-isolated immediately, had the test. I'm very happy to say the test was negative and she's now back to normal, but she followed the advice to the letter self-isolated, tested, that is the only case I'm aware of it. And I think she tweeted that this morning.
 
JOURNALIST: Not Anthony Albanese, where is he today?
 
BOWEN: He is in Sydney and I'm certainly not aware of any tests.
 
JOURNALIST: When - we have been following this for a couple of months now, and I've never heard anything about 24 hours preceding this when someone is symptomatic when you isolate - until the Prime Minister's office statement last night, that was the first I've heard of it. Are you in the same boat? 
 
BOWEN: Yes. I mean, based on the public advice, the public information, which is pretty clear and says nothing about 24 hours. Now there's different advice for primary health care workers. Peter Dutton is not a primary health care worker last time I checked. So the public advice, he is a member the public as well as a cabinet minister. This is what I'm concerned about, the apparent misinformation or the confusion that will be caused. If Scott Morrison says he doesn't need to be tested and self-isolated and the rest of the Cabinet don't need to go through it. What about people who are going about their normal business, trying to get as Tony says, food on the table, they might - self isolation for them means a loss of wages in some instances. They're going to be confused. This has to be cleaned up really quickly, really quickly.
 
JOURNALIST: Are you suggesting the Cabinet or much of it should be self-isolating?
 
BOWEN: Well, they should follow the public advice unless they've explained to the Australian people today, why they're not, or the public advice has changed. I mean, these things can’t all be right. The public advice can't be right. The Prime Minister's actions cannot be right. They can't all be right. Something is different. Something is being applied differently. As I said, I stress, the Government's in our thoughts, Peter Dutton, is in our thoughts, I wish him all the very best. 
 
This is about the message this sends. Particularly as there is such a dearth of advertising and public health information out there. I mean, the states are doing it. Western Australia has daily ads in the newspaper about public information, the state government. The New South Wales Liberal Government's doing it here. They've got information campaigns out there. This is not about partisan politics. There needs to be a federally, nationally coordinated information campaign. 
 
And this confusion on a very clear reading of the public advice is not being followed by the Cabinet of Australia. Justin Trudeau has in self-isolation as we speak.
 
JOURNALIST: Should the Cabinet isolate?
 
BOWEN: They should follow the advice that has been given to every single Australian, they should follow that as well. And if they have some explanation as to what's different about them, I want to hear it today. And I think the Australian people deserve to hear today.
 
JOURNALIST: Do you think the Chief Medical Officer has given the Cabinet a different set of instructions?
 
BOWEN: That's a matter for the Chief Medical Officer to deal with and the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, I'm not critical of them. I am critical of a different approach being taken, on the face of it, from everything I can see. If they have got an explanation and it's a good explanation. We'll accept it. I haven't seen any good explanation. And my main concern here is the confusion that this will cause in the public that there is what appears to be one set of rules for them. And another set of rules for everyone else.
 
JOURNALIST: Does it really hurt to just get tested?
 
BOWEN: Well, it's not a painful test. And it's not. It's not particularly pleasant test from what I understand. 
 
JOURNALIST: But peace of mind, just do it?
 
BOWEN: Again, I mean, guidance has been given Australian people, nothing here about 24 hours. Nothing. I checked last night because I was confused. If I'm confused. The Australian people have every right to be confused as well.
 
JOURNALIST: Should Marise Payne self-isolate on her return?
 
BOWEN: Well, she should follow the public advice. I don't know where she's been. I don't know what, what exposures she's had, but she should follow the public advice.
 
JOURNALIST: Can I ask Mr Burke as the Manager of Opposition Business, if we’ve got a situation where the federal cabinet has been potentially exposed to coronavirus, what can the Parliament do when you’re supposed to sit Monday week in the event that a few of these members may have to sit out and can’t go to Parliament?
 
BURKE: We frequently deal with pairing arrangements when someone’s not well and can’t attend, so that concept itself isn’t problematic. Certainly, the way the virus is spreading, it’s pretty clear that the sooner Parliament sits, that is in everyone’s interest in making sure the stimulus package gets through. That’s why Anthony Albanese put that to the Government. Within an hour they just dismissed it out of hand. So that now means we’ll be waiting for the extra week, but in terms of individuals who can’t attend, pairing arrangements have always dealt with that.
 
JOURNALIST: But can a Parliament sit without an Executive?
 
BURKE: Without any Executive? You need to have someone from the Executive there. The Executive…
 
JOURNALIST: But what if they’re all out?
 
BURKE: The Executive is much bigger than the Cabinet. But I mean there’s a whole series of what-ifs that you’ve added there. The first line though is the sooner the Parliament sits, the less likely we are to face those sorts of problems, and the stimulus package requires the Parliament to sit, so it’s in everyone’s interests for the Parliament to sit early, that’s why we put it forward as a constructive suggestion. But Scott Morrison’s nature is if the idea didn’t come from himself then he throws it out pretty quickly.
 
JOURNALIST: Aren’t MPs sitting in Parliament, isn’t that by its very nature, a risk? It’s a mass gathering.
 
BURKE: And this is why the sooner the meeting happens the more effective … there is no stimulus package without the Parliament sitting.
 
JOURNALIST: Just on that advice with mass gatherings, would it have been better to take effect yesterday rather than waiting until Monday and following a weekend of fairly large events?
 
BOWEN: Yeah, I don't quibble with the advice of the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee. I do say though - the advice of the Committee is not a ceiling. It should be a floor. It should be the minimum of what is done. It should be the minimum action put in time in place by governments, governments can and should decide to do more. 
 
I don't understand how an event, which is a bad idea on Monday is a fine idea on Saturday. I do not understand how that can be the case. This is my point about the Prime Minister's lack of leadership with the football tonight. I mean, a mass gathering on a Saturday night is to my mind of a similar nature to a mass gathering on Monday night.
 
Particularly as we know, the sooner action is taken, as I said in my first words, I said here. We know the sooner and more substantial action is taken on social isolation, the more effective it is in stopping COVID-19 taking hold in a community and we must stop it taking hold in our community.
 
JOURNALIST: This is not a ban, on mass gatherings. What do you say to organisers of events who plan to continue, do you think that they should be banned?
 
BOWEN: The situation is that these events, the Government's advice is very clear, the Chief Medical Officer's advice was very clear - they should not proceed. If there are events which do proceed against the advice of the Government, the Chief Medical Officer, as Director of Biosecurity has certain powers. That's a matter for him to outline whether he would contemplate using them or not. But it shouldn't get to that and my expectation won't get to that. Most people are patriotic Australians who want to see us get through this. And as disappointing as it is for many people we've met with large events planned that had to be cancelled with short notice. I mean, I've had speeches cancelled and conferences I was going to speak at I'm sure Tony has, and you know, there were going to be good speeches and we're all very disappointed.
 
And there are big events that have been cancelled as well which is disappointing for people who were going to be involved - most particularly the Easter Show I mean the kids and the Easter show. It's very disappointing, but it's the right decision.
 
JOURNALIST: On the Easter show, there are a lot of hospitality workers, casual workers paying their way through university or paying rent. That is really, really tough for people. In your mind is there any social safety net here?
 
BURKE: The challenge that we’ve got here is a whole lot of people who rely on these events and while we all look at the Easter Show you need to remember the stall holders there go from show to show, a lot of them, on a network of shows that goes all around, at least the state and some of them, around the country. Now they’re not just out of work for the Easter Show. Their income, their livelihood, their business, or their employer, is now a problem for some time, and this is why I say there needs to be a plan for this as an industry. For each of us, we’ll think of it in terms of the festival we were going to go to, the concert we were going to go to, the match we were going to go to, the show we were going to go to, but for the workforce, it’s not just the ones we were going to go to, it is their entire livelihood that is now at risk, in a way that, in a way that never happens. You know they are all precarious industries. They’re industries where people will occasionally get a shift cancelled, but the arts, entertainment and major events industry is about to go through something that it has never gone through and you can’t see anything in the Government’s package at the moment that speaks to these people.
 
JOURNALIST: Is this a broader issue – I know you guys have been talking about it for years and years and years - the casualisation of the workforce, and now we’re seeing it in a very, very serious way.

BURKE: When people don’t have job security, at moments like this, it affects the security of the country.
 
JOURNALIST: Do you do you feel safe in this building? We've obviously seen people in Hazmat suits disinfecting after Dutton was here?
 
BOWEN: Well, look, we're just like every other Australian are going about our daily business but maximising of course our hygiene as we do so, and protection of us and our families and every other person we come into contact with. I think what you're referring to in this building is again symptomatic of the urgent need for the Government to explain what steps it has taken here.
 
There is appears some fumigation going on in this building, if that's regarded as necessary. That seems to me to be somewhat at odds with the rather blasé attitude that has been taken that the Prime Minister and the Cabinet don't need to be tested, don't need to be self-isolated and can just go about their business. 
 
JOURNALIST: Do you think it would be a massive blow to the nation's confidence if it emerged that the Prime Minister was tested?
 
BOWEN: No, no, I don't. I think, I think actually, the Prime Minister showing leadership and setting an example of taking precaution would be seen as a good thing, as Justin Trudeau has done. I mean, I saw Justin Trudeau on television this morning convening a Cabinet meeting over the over Skype from his home office because he's self-isolated, showing that the country is continuing to be governed, but he was taking responsible precautions. That's what leadership looks like. 
 
JOURNALIST: Is it time for the Government to close schools? There's a lot of commentary today.
 
BOWEN: Look, I think state and federal governments should advise parents as soon as possible whether such action is going to be taken. You know, I see the public reports that it's possible. I understand why it might be done. I understand the benefits of it being done. I also understand the dislocation it would it would cause and I think the sooner that information can be made available to Australians the better.
 
JOURNALIST: I heard Senator Abetz earlier today calling for some sort of unity, for suspension of what he called political sniping, as we face what looks to be a fairly serious crisis. Is that a fair call and if so, where does a statement like this fit? 
 
BOWEN: Well, we have provided a lot of bipartisan support to the Government. We've acknowledged briefings we've received, we've acknowledged our support for their actions, some of which were controversial. And then, you know, way back this sounds like a long time ago, but way back when the Government instigated Christmas Island as a detention centre, and they were getting criticised uphill and down dale, not from us, not from us, because we recognised how difficult the situation was at short notice. So we had provided that support, but it's never stopped us calling for more. We say the health package is good, but not good enough. And that's the role of a constructive opposition, to provide suggestions as to what can and should be done better. And that is, I think, the appropriate thing to do. And I think you could not characterise our approach as being necessarily negative, far from it, what you can characterise our approach as being critical but constructive. 

ENDS