TRANSCRIPT: TV INTERVIEW - SKY NEWS - MONDAY, JULY 28 2020

E&OE TRANSCRIPT 
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS AFTERNOON AGENDA WITH KIERAN GILBERT
MONDAY, 27 JULY 2020

SUBJECTS: JobKeeper; industrial relations; Margaret Thatcher; Bunnings workers; parliament’s return.

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Shadow Industrial Relations Minister Tony Burke thanks very much for your time. Is Labor going to support ongoing workplace flexibility for those businesses that have been on JobKeeper for the second phase of that wage subsidy?

TONY BURKE: We're waiting to see whether the proposal from the government is the same as what Josh Frydenberg outlined at the National Press Club. What he outlined had two key features - one that he has now backed down on. The two key features were, every business that was already on JobKeeper would be able to keep flexibility regardless of how well they were doing, and secondly it would just be on an ongoing basis. Now on the second point he's started to shift and they’re saying it would be time limited. But on, will it apply to every business, we’re talking about a very big shift in people's rights to job security. And you don't give that away lightly. And certainly I can't see - and the government hasn’t been willing to make an argument - as to why you would provide those sorts of powers to employers if their business ends up doing even better than it would have been doing twelve months earlier. And when the economy is going this badly will there be examples of that? Yeah there will. You'll have businesses where their competitor falls over and their share of turnover has actually become mor than where they were twelve months earlier. And you can't have a situation where a business is doing better than it was doing 12 months earlier and the workers lose their job security anyway.

GILBERT: The prime minister has said it again today has reiterated it won't be looking to make a permanent arrangement on this. So that's one concern dealt with I guess. But in terms of that the other one and how business is going now as opposed to the first phase of JobKeeper, how do you want to see that dealt with? Is there a test that can be adopted, a benchmark? 

BURKE: The example I have consistently given, which is covered by what Josh Frydenberg announced, and the government hasn't been willing to defend this example so maybe they won’t go there. But the example I give is if a business is doing better than ever, why, based on the fact that they had six very difficult months, where they were supported during that with JobKeeper, why should they take away the job security for the workforce. And if I could just explain what that job security means. If we're talking about situations where the employer would have the power to say to a full-time worker, you’re going part-time. It's not negotiated. It's not through mutual agreement. That may well make the difference for that worker as to whether or not they continue to pay their mortgage, whether they continue to rent in the premises they’re in. This makes a huge difference. There’s a reason why these safeguards to job security are ordinarily there. Now that example of the business that is doing better is one that I have not yet heard any member of the government defend why they would be willing to extend it. So we'll see what they propose, but that's what Josh originally said would be covered when he spoke at the National Press Club. And I don't see how we'd be able to support something like that.

GILBERT: But do you concede though, or accept, that for many businesses, even though they might not qualify for the wage subsidy, the second phase, they would still be battling their way out of the downturn. 

BURKE: Well there will be businesses that are still battling their way out of the downturn. What we need to remember, we're talking about businesses that the government has decided are doing well enough that they no longer need financial support. So for every business we’re talking about here, the government has already decided they're doing well enough that their workforce no longer needs JobKeeper. So Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenberg have said they don't need to help that business anymore, but they are proposing that there'll be some of these businesses where even though the government doesn't need to help them anymore, the workers still lose their job security at the exact time where it's more difficult than ever - if you need a full-time job to be able to make ends meet and you lose that and you get knocked down part time, I can't think of a more difficult time in my life that someone would have to suddenly find themselves on the job market trying to pay the bills.

GILBERT: Should there be a threshold set by the Tax Office, by the government with the help of the ATO, of companies, where they have increased turnover by a certain percentage, if they've done that then obviously they're well on the way back, they don't necessarily need that additional flexibility. Is there a way you can manage that? 

BURKE: Look for every one of these businesses would be talking about circumstances where the Government's has decided to not give them a cent more. So all the businesses are in that situation. But within that range there are some businesses that will be effective not very needy at all, and there will be others still doing it tough. Now if the government wants to come back with a different proposal to what Josh Frydenberg announced at the National Press Club, we’ll look at that. It's not for me to micromanage the details for them. 

GILBERT: Now the forecast last week was that unemployment would hit 9.25 per cent in December, peaking at that point. Is that optimistic given the shutdown in Victoria, the likelihood of major further disruptions because of this pandemic?

BURKE: Everything in the budget, in the economic statement the Treasurer brought down, worked on the basis there be no further lockdowns and the Victorian one would only last in the order of six weeks. And they had to plug a presumption in and that’s what they’ve done. How optimistic that is remains to be seen. But certainly, no matter which way you look at where unemployment is headed, it’s hard to imagine – well, no matter which way you look at it there will never be a time where job security is more important than now. And that's why I'm terribly concerned if the government picks this moment in time to make job security even worse. 

GILBERT: Labor still hasn't given us a definitive number for what the JobSeeker should be. When will that be achieved? 

BURKE: We’re not the government. It’s for the government to govern. And it's for the government to deal with, and even in amendments in the parliament you can’t amend the money bills in the same way you can other legislation. So it’s reasonable for the question to be put to us, I’m not critical of the question being asked, but there’s a good reason why we don’t. It’s for the government to govern. Forty dollars a day was not enough to live on. And we’ve said we're not going to stand in the way of the changes they’re making at the moment. But certainly you need it to settle on a rate that is enough for people to be able to live on and enough for people to be able to be out there actively searching for jobs on the job market. The old JobSeeker, the old NewStart rate, clearly wasn’t enough to be able to do that.
 
GILBERT: The Prime Minister was asked about the Treasurer’s remarks about Thatcher / Reagan. He said he's leading an Australian response, a uniquely Australian response, so obviously not wanting to buy into that. Has a bit too much been read into the Treasurer's inspirations?

BURKE: It was a stupid comment from Josh Frydenberg and I hope it’s not true. If you think of the Prime Minister's claims that now is the time the people put down their weapons and we're all going to work together, and then Josh Frydenberg holds up leaders who presided over times of massive industrial conflict? Really? Is that what we’re looking for, for Australia. Now it's one thing for them to throw some red meat to the Liberal Party base and for Scott Morrison to say oh no that’s not where we’re heading. Josh Frydenberg is the Treasurer of Australia. If he think conflict is the model he wants then he needs to explain that. Because I’ll tell you, it's not what Australians are looking for.

GILBERT: He was he was talking about supply side economics, support for business, business tax incentives and that sort of thing as opposed to their model on workplace relations.

BURKE: Well I don't think you can separate trickle-down economics from what they did in industrial relations. And effectively, and no matter what level of history people know of those various governments, the image they will remember is the image of conflict. And that is the last thing that we should be looking for right now.

GILBERT: I noticed that you sent a message on social media in the last 24 hours in support of those shop assistants. I think many of us have seen those images of people berating them about wearing a mask, about being required to wear a mask. Thankfully they’re isolated incidents aren’t they but that would be a difficult confrontation to manage for those staff members at Bunnings or wherever else. 

BURKE: Over the years when people have spoken about frontline workers they’ve often spoken about nurses, about the police force. During this pandemic we have all realised that shop assistants are frontline workers. And when shop assistants have been on that frontline they have taken the full heat of aggro from customers. What we saw, yeah it's not happening constantly, but the only reason we know about that one was because it was videoed. And don't underestimate the number of times shop assistants are receiving a serve. And we need basically as a community to get in behind them and let it be known they are carrying a critical role for Australia right and we’re proud of them.
 
GILBERT: They were certainly very patient, that’s for sure. Not sure I would have been. Finally, on the Parliament, August 24 is the scheduled date now. Is that going to go ahead? Most likely with less, if any, representatives out of Victoria. 

BURKE: I'm very confident Parliament will go ahead. The Speaker and the President took up our suggestion that we start a working group – that’s the President of the Senate and Speaker of the House, took up Labor’s suggestion from myself and Katy Gallagher that we start that working group to say okay, what are the health rules and what do we have to do to make it work? Parliament needs to come back. The Prime Minister cannot cancel it again. Because we need to come back and make the legal changes for wage subsidies to continue, otherwise the economy hits a cliff. So we need to be back and we need to be back in August and we need to sit down with the health experts and find a way for it to work.

GILBERT: And what would be the minimum number you would have to have here for that sort of passage, is there a number, a quorum?  

BURKE: Yeah, quorum is 31.
 
GILBERT: So you could have 31 in Parliament and pass the Bill.
 
BURKE: We came quite close to that number at some points over the last few months. So it can get very low. You need have some people here. What matters is, instead of looking for excuses to cancel the Parliament we look for ways to make it work. And that's why I'm glad the Speaker and the President have taken up the suggestion.

ENDS