TRANSCRIPT: TV INTERVIEW - SKY NEWS - FEBRUARY 1, 2021

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH KIERAN GILBERT
MONDAY, 1 FEBRUARY 2021

SUBJECTS: Gig economy workers; Scott Morrison’s pay cut for workers; Newspoll.

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Joining me is the Manager of Opposition Business and the opposition industrial relations spokesman Tony Burke, thanks for your time. Let's start with your plans or the proposal when it comes to gig workers, the gig economy - Uber drivers and so on – what have you got planned on that front? We see some policy information gradually being released, what are your plans, your thinking on it?

TONY BURKE, SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS: Well the first thing Kieran is we need to establish what cannot be allowed to go on. And it's this: we cannot have a situation in Australia where some people are working below the minimum wage. We have a situation in Australia where we’ve set a legal minimum, and then for a whole lot of people in the gig economy, we say “but you don't count”. And what’s the reason these platforms say they don’t count? They say, “Oh, no, but they're not employees, they're independent contractors”. Now, I'll tell you, someone driving their own heavy vehicle, they've got mortgage over it, they employ someone to do the bookkeeping, there is no doubt that they're an independent contractor. But I just don't accept for a minute that the visa worker with a second-hand bike, racing around, running traffic lights trying to make ends meet, has that sort of strength, that sort of independence. And the end point is right now, we have third-world working conditions in a first-world country. That can’t be allowed to go on.

GILBERT: So how do you ensure at least a minimum wage for those individuals? Because it’s tricky, isn't it?

BURKE: That's right. And what's happened so far, is it’s been are they employees, are they not employees? How do deal with this? We are saving a number of announcements for next week. But the principle is this: if you believe in a minimum wage for Australia then you've got to be willing to apply it. And at the moment, for gig workers – you know, some people will get minimum wage, they’ll get enough shifts, that’ll get it done. But there are other people who are working for rates of pay that are otherwise unlawful.

GILBERT: But it’s challenging isn't it because they have minimal contact with their employers, many of these individuals will be talking about the autonomy they've got as gig workers, they don't have the same traditional sort of contact you would have to deal with your boss.

BURKE: It depends on your job. There are a series of jobs where people will call in for shifts, so not every job takes place in the workplace. The real difference here in the way that technology operates, some of this technology monitors in workers much more closely than any employer normally will. They will have GPS tracking, they’ll be checking how fast – I've met someone who lost a whole lot of shifts because he was catching the train, he was traveling at the wrong pace and he’d been GPS tracked. So, you know, let’s not pretend these apps aren’t watching their workforce closely. They are. They are just pretending the people working for them are somehow all independent contractors, and they aren’t all independent contractors.

GILBERT: Are you encouraged by the poll today? Are you surprised by that? I know you don't like to comment on polls specifically. But it certainly takes a bit of the heat out of that talk about the leader.

BURKE: I was surprised by the talk. What was published today matches what I've been hearing in the community. And the other thing to remember, we just had in 2020 what in political terms was the worst year for oppositions anywhere in the world. The Federal Opposition here, led by Anthony Albanese, is doing better than any other opposition in the country. And the oppositions that are completely tapped are the ones who decided to get cut-through they would just attack the government no matter what. Look what happened to the Liberal Party in Western Australia and Victoria, and you see where that recipe ends up. What Anthony's done is made sure that when government does the right thing, we agree. And where the government hasn't gotten the right decision yet we push them to get there. Without us pushing for it, let’s not forget Scott Morrison was originally against wage subsidies. Today he is boasting about the importance of JobKeeper - when we told him to do it at first he said it was very dangerous.

GILBERT: Is it, with the industrial relations discussion today, will we see more meat on the bone so to speak? Because one of the criticisms of Labor and Mr Albanese has been there’s been no policy, no direction. Or as Bill Shorten described it, a tiny agenda.

BURKE: Bill said that the reference wasn't exactly as he described in terms of what he meant. But the real issue here is, the first policy that we announced is huge. And that's childcare. It is appalling that anyone gets punished for wanting to work the fourth or fifth day. The concept now that we have people, if you work the fourth or fifth day you lose money, because of how the childcare system operates is something that obviously needs to be fixed. But with the industrial relations agenda, you look at what the Morrison Government's proposed already, what’s before the parliament now, what we'll start announcing, and I’ve already spoken to you about gig workers, here’s the difference it makes. It determines, this policy area, what is it like on the other side of the pandemic. When you go through a period of huge unemployment, and you start coming out of the hole at the other side, do you have Australians in secure jobs or insecure jobs? Scott Morrison has a view that they’re all the same. I'll tell you what, it's not the same if you're trying to get a mortgage. It's not the same if you're trying to make ends meet. Bills are regular. Income needs to be.

GILBERT: And hence, this new mantra, this line that Labor’s saying “we're on your side”. Is that basically because you feel there's a disconnect now or a widening inequality, worsened by pandemic, is that essentially why you’re prosecuting that line?

BURKE: It's even worse than that. The people who feel betrayed are the people who at the end of last year were being told they were the heroes of the pandemic. You think of the term frontline workers, if you used that on Sky News as a term 10 years ago you would have meant police, nurses, people in uniform. But after the pandemic we’re talking about cleaners, we're talking about shop assistants, we're talking about transport workers, delivery drivers, we're talking about Australia Post. Now when we talk about frontline workers, it's a completely different definition. It's much broader because we realise what it is that we rely on to make Australia work. Now those people are the same people who are going to be at risk of a pay cut if Scott Morrison goes ahead with legislation that’s before the Parliament right now.

GILBERT: So we're seeing this advertising from the unions, a bus heading towards some workers. What do you make of that sort of quite graphic ad?

BURKE: I hear you and there's a really specific reason why I'm not going to comment on it. The government today is desperately trying to make the story about an ad. You've got a real issue out there. People are going to have a cut to their take-home pay. People who are the heroes of the pandemic potentially facing pay cuts of $6,000. Up to $12,000 a year for an aged care worker, and you think what they've been through in the last year. Now I'm not surprised the government doesn't want to talk about that. And they want to go off to an ad. I’m not surprised that from Mr Morrison's government, the thing they are most passionate about is the advertising and marketing issue. But can I tell you, this pay cut is real. The cuts to job security that Mr Morrison's government is currently pursuing are real and we will keep the fight exactly there.

GILBERT: Do you see a situation where the government will simply compromise and won’t put itself in a position where it's facing another Work Choices, essentially. And they will make amendments to that omnibus bill? They've already indicated they're open to it.

BURKE: They just had two months, they’ve had two months to withdraw the legislation, they’ve had two months to say that they're not going to go ahead with it. They've had two months where Australian workers, after going through the toughest year of their working life, have been told they're threatened with cuts to job security and cuts to pay. And what's Mr Morrison’s government done during that time? Left the bill completely as it is. Sure, if they can't get it through the Parliament, it won't happen. But that will only be because we've stopped them. And what they have revealed now that they can't walk away from is what sort of Australia they want. And it's one with cuts to pay and cuts to job security.

GILBERT: Just before I let you go, we’ll finish where we were a bit earlier, we discussed earlier Anthony Albanese and his leadership. Often in his place once this starts simmering, it's hard to put a lid back on it. Are you comfortable, give you said you were surprised by the talk in the first place, that he's safe and secure in that position?

BURKE: We’re in the hunt. Anthony Albanese will take us to the election and beyond. And can I say, the more I see how arrogant and confident Mr Morrison is, the more I'm reminded of the Howard Government in its final term.

GILBERT: Tony Burke, talk to you soon.

ENDS