TRANSCRIPT: TV INTERVIEW - SKY NEWS - JUNE 17, 2021

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH LAURA JAYES
THURSDAY, 17 JUNE 2021

SUBJECTS: Minimum wage case; vaccine rollout; Scott Morrison’s overseas visit; friendlyjordies.

LAURA JAYES, HOST: The Shadow Minister for Industrial Relations Tony Burke joins me live now from Canberra. Plenty happening in Canberra this week but first of all – did the Fair Work Commission get this right?

TONY BURKE, SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS: Well, we support the decision of the umpire. And, you know, I think we have to acknowledge the reality that it may well have been a higher number if the government had advocated for a wage increase. The Productivity Commission's made it clear that the Fair Work Commission listens to three sources: government, business and unions. It was only unions that were arguing hard for a pay increase. It's a modest increase that will make a significant difference in people's lives. My frustration is we will still have a large number of Australians who are paid less than the legal minimum.

JAYES: What did you advocate for?

BURKE: We advocated for a pay increase. And I've done this on this program many times with you. We didn't put a number on it, we don't. But it's for the umpire to be able to make that out. But we argued all the time that people need a pay increase, not only with the cost of living rising, and let's not forget the budget’s predicting the cost of living will go up 3.5 per cent over the next 12 months, but also because to get the economy moving we need people to be spending money. And if you want domestic consumption to go up, people need two things: secure jobs and good pay. And so this pay increase is part of that equation. And for every business that will complain and say they would rather their wages didn't go up for their employees, well they all want their wages to go up for their customers. And the only way to get there and to get spending moving is for secure jobs and better pay.

JAYES: Indeed. And the recovery is obviously very patchy as we emerge from COVID. Do you accept that some businesses won't be able to afford this?

BURKE: Every business looks at all their costs. But you know, the employment cost is just one of them. And let's not forget, this is off the back of years of wage stagnation. So, businesses have always said, every time there's a pay increase, have come out responding saying, oh, they can't afford it, this is a disaster. We even got to the point where business was saying you needed to cut wages and cut penalty rates, and that would be the only way they’d employ more people. Well penalty rates were cut and not one extra job was created. Ultimately, the pathway to job creation, the pathway to getting the economy moving, involves secure jobs and better pay. So I hear business saying that, I respect there are many businesses where costs are very tight. But you don't get a pathway out of this without pay rises.

JAYES: There seemed to be a bit of shared blame when you're looking at governments around the country. The Fair Work Commission saying that looming lockdowns from state governments and the slow vaccine rollout which might slate to the federal government is affecting our recovery. So do you accept there’s some shared blame there?

BURKE: Well, the state governments can only act on the health advice once a breakout occurs. But obviously that health advice will be informed by the state of play with quarantine and vaccine. If we had a better quarantine system, then there would be fewer breakouts because the breakouts we get pretty much always come from hotel quarantine. And if you had the population vaccinated in the sorts of numbers that the government told us were going to happen, then you would have a situation where the health advice that came into the state governments would be radically different. So yes, the Commission was right -

JAYES: Where’s the proof that would be radically different? Because we look at the medical advice in every state, you know, Gladys Berejiklian does not pull the trigger on lockdowns, and it seems Victoria is a little bit more trigger happy.

BURKE: The key all the way across with this is going to be on a pathway of getting the vaccine roll out done. No matter which argument you run state by state with every state this is true: if the vaccine rollout is done and done properly, and if it had already been done on the original time frame that the government claimed they were going to deliver, then we would be in a very different situation. And it's not only that you get a whole series of lockdowns, New South Wales did have suburb by suburb lockdowns earlier this year, it depends on the state of the outbreak. But you don't end up with the same health advice if you've got a community where the vaccination program has been run out properly. You can't find a community in Australia where the government has met its targets on the vaccine rollout.

JAYES: Well they don't have targets anymore. They dropped those a couple of months ago.

BURKE: There’s a reason why they dropped them.

JAYES: I know, but I digress. Tony Burke, Scott Morrison is on his way home from the UK, it seems to have been pretty successful visit. We've seen a lot of public support for Australia and Scott Morrison when it comes to this trade war with China. We saw that from Boris Johnson very strongly, also from the likes of Joe Biden too. Would you see this as a successful visit?

BURKE: The various nations you refer to have been saying for a long time about the need for a strong response to a more assertive China. And we need to make sure in trying to have a pathway forward that we don't give up on our values as democracies. But I think it's a long bow, as the government has been spinning, that these ideas all came from Mr Morrison. I think –

JAYES: But last week, you were talking about Morrison perpetuating this negative globalism. I think my point is, you know, other world leaders haven't seen it that way.

BURKE: Oh, well, I don't know that they've commented on it. All I'm saying is we can't pretend that because other countries have a similar view with respect to China, that therefore that's a success for Mr Morrison. Pretending that it was his idea first – it’s just an odd spin that the government is putting forward.

JAYES: Okay, let's end by talking about friendlyjordies. Interesting that we're doing this. But nonetheless, I think it's legitimate. We heard from Amanda Stoker a little earlier on First Edition this morning. And she says that Labor is too close to this guy and he's made some pretty off jokes. What do you think of this?

BURKE: There are some comments that he's made that are quite rightly denounced and condemned. That’s true.

JAYES: Who’s denounced and condemned them on your side?

BURKE: Well, I just did at that moment. I don't have a list for you. But yeah, there are comments he’s made with respect to women that are completely inappropriate and should be condemned. I don't then go to a “cancel culture” argument that therefore, you know, you can't talk to him, you can't look at his material or anything like that. You know, there's some material that he’s put out about, for example, he was one of the early people out there arguing about what the government was doing with debt, and the fact that they had doubled Australia's debt before anyone had heard of COVID. And so, I have been interviewed by him, for example, just as I have been interviewed by a whole lot of people on “Sky After Dark”, who have said some pretty horrible things and have sometimes been on the wrong side of law. But you want to make sure that you're connecting with an audience for people. So yes, those various comments, condemn and denounce. But does that mean that as an outlet for opinion and views I'd never have a look at what he did? Absolutely not.

JAYES: So you don't want to get into this point where you're guilty by association, if you like, that shouldn't happen on either side?

BURKE: That’s right. The same reason that that I'll do interviews with some of the presenters who are on later at night on this channel, is because I want to make sure that I have a chance to communicate with their audience. And that's why I've done that over the years. And similarly, in terms of is Labor too close? It's a bit of a silly argument. Of course, we want to communicate with his audience. Of course we do. And there are some pretty solid points that he's made over the years. But like with anyone who makes a comment that's inappropriate, you denounce it, you condemn it, as I've done on the show.

JAYES: Okay. Thanks so much. Expect a flurry of calls from the night time crew. See you soon.

ENDS