TRANSCRIPT: TV INTERVIEW - SKY NEWS - JUNE 22, 2021

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH LAURA JAYES
THURSDAY, 22 JULY 2021

SUBJECTS: COVID outbreaks; Brisbane Olympics.

LAURA JAYES, HOST: Joining me right now is the Shadow Minister for Industrial Relations. Thanks so much for your time. First of all, ATAGI. And we all know the recommendations around AstraZeneca. But there's a lot of people under 40 that want it but can’t get it in Sydney, what do you think about that?

TONY BURKE, SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS: Well, they’ve been able to talk to their GP if they wanted to, so the “can't get it” argument I don't think quite matches what I'm hearing is happening in my community. The truth is the government's handled the public information so poorly about AstraZeneca that we've ended up in a situation where there's huge vaccine hesitancy with respect to it. And a large number of people are going to the GPs and a lot of GPs are recommending against it. Some are recommending in favour, some are recommending against. But can I also say what the Prime Minister did yesterday was extraordinary. One of the great strengths that we've had when we've been battling for community confidence is that people have a sense that the medical advice that is coming through has a true level of independence. And to put that at risk yesterday, by putting public pressure on ATAGI was extraordinary, really ill-advised. And something which, think through what happens next. If ATAGI now do, as is always their job, it was already their job to be constantly looking at the risk profile and working out with the risk profile changing whether or not they need to change their advice. Mr. Morrison's now created a situation where a whole lot of people if ATAGI does make that decision, will think it was made because of political pressure not because of medical decision. That is an appalling own-goal –

JAYES: But maybe ATAGI was wrong. Maybe the risk profile and the way they made this decision was wrong, because they made it on the basis of no cases being in the community at the time. Now we have 1500 active cases in New South Wales.

BURKE: And it is their job to keep looking back at this and to keep working out the extent to which the risk profile has changed. A series of the decisions they made with respect to AstraZeneca were because risk profiles had changed. So it is their job to be constantly looking at this, and checking as new information comes in whether the advice needs to change. The risk that happened yesterday was instead of the Prime Minister simply describing what they do, instead of simply describing that he knows they are constantly reassessing as the risk profile changes, he put public pressure on them. And the last thing that we want is for people to believe that medical advice is being given on political pressure. For all the problems we've got with vaccine hesitancy at the moment, the last thing we want is for people to think there's a political component in it.

JAYES: With respect, people aren't going to ATAGI – they’re going to their GPs to get a vaccine. So in the end, shouldn't we just be telling people don't listen to anyone, just go to your GP to get their advice, the best advice for you?

BURKE: Well, I think the government to be able to say we're following the health advice is something that they want to be able to say. And ATAGI is the key body that they're referring to there. I think if we went down a path where we were saying don't listen to anybody, and we were saying, you know, there is no central panel that deals with national advice in terms of overall public health recommendations. I think then we would be in a world where people more than ever would be Googling their health advice, which would be disastrous.

JAYES: Yeah, afraid I think too many people do that anyway. Let's get on to the lockdown. Fourteen million people. Josh Frydenberg told us here on Sky News this morning that is costing more than $2.1 billion each and every week. In many ways the COVID disaster payments we have are better than what we saw with JobKeeper, but perhaps they need a few tweaks. If this lockdown lingers, what's your position?

BURKE: I don't think the test is how much money you're spending. I think the test is are you keeping people attached to their employer? And I don't think we can underestimate the extent to which there is a difference if you get a certain amount of money through your employer versus the same amount of money as a government payment. You are better off if it's happening through your employer.

JAYES: Why? Why is that?

BURKE: Well, I think most people would accept that if you could be in a situation where it's work that's better than a situation where it's welfare.

JAYES: Absolutely but if you get business support, Tony Burke, if you get this business support, which is, you know, 40 per cent of your payroll, you're allowed to reduce your staff to zero hours but you're not allowed to sack them. Isn't that good enough?

BURKE: There's a lot of presumptions at the moment that the only businesses we're talking about are the businesses that are trading as usual or businesses that have completely shut down. There's a large number of businesses that are allowed to operate but where their work is suppressed at the moment. So it's not an all or nothing. It doesn't have to be identical to JobKeeper, but one of the things that a wage subsidy does is it allowed businesses to effectively be able to give people, even where there had been a serious downturn, some work each week. Now, obviously, there's some areas of Sydney, my area in particular, where people are being asked, we just don't want you leaving the home at all except just to get food or go to the pharmacy. But in a whole lot of areas you've got businesses that are seriously suppressed, where if you have the direct sort of payments work that would otherwise be unprofitable, allows a business to continue, allows people to work a few hours each week. And there is a difference between simply receiving the same money and not being in a situation of being able to work, and having it connected to a job. It does make a difference, it makes a difference for the business, it makes a difference for the individual. And it makes a very significant difference as to how we are at the other side. Now, if this is only a very short, sharp lockdown, I suspect the difference between those two equations won't be massive. But if this does keep going on, the longer people lose their relationship with their employer, particularly if their work is not particularly secure, then we do create some real problems that we didn't have to face last year.

JAYES: And what's your read of the situation with the lockdowns at the moment?

BURKE: At the moment in my part of Sydney people started fearful, they were then confused, and there's a lot of confusion still there. But after yesterday I think they're angry. Because we had an expectation that with a harsher lockdown there would be a higher level of support. And instead, what we're seeing is a much harsher lockdown than anyone dealt with last year, with less support. Now, a whole lot of people in my area will work in aged care, will work, as you've said previously, in jobs that you can't do from a laptop at home. But it's also the case that you walk any block in my part of Sydney and you'll see two or three utes. And construction being shut down this time, makes a massive, massive difference to what's happening. And the other thing is a whole lot of people not being able to pay rents, not being able to meet payments. Different rules come in saying landlords will have to hold off, but we forget in my part of Sydney a whole lot of those landlords are people living in the same street as well, where effectively an investment property has been their superannuation, while they're running a fruit shop or running whatever sort of small business they might have been running. So there is a lot more pain happening this year. And a whole lot of people have run down savings, and then they're in the process of running up credit.

JAYES: Just finally, before we let you go and Brisbane is getting 2032 Anastasia Palaszczuk in Tokyo despite calling for a 75 per cent cap reduction for Aussies coming from overseas. She's got to go into hotel quarantine. John Coates overnight, said she's got to go to the opening ceremony, should she?

BURKE: Well, can I say first of all, isn’t it good to have some good news?

JAYES: Sorry, I'm a bit cynical, I should say that. Congratulations Brisbane.

BURKE: I love the Olympics, and I'll never forget how the changed Sydney and I can't wait for that to happen for Queensland. I actually don't buy the criticism of Anastasia Palaszczuk on this one at all. Yes, we're in a situation where at that point in time we were the only the only country that the IOC was looking at. But you know, you can't get to the end of the marathon and say, oh, we're not going to run the final lap. You've got to show respect for the institution. So I'm not sure what Premier Palaszczuk will do with respect to the opening ceremony. But certainly being there, the comparison to hotel quarantine I just don't buy it. We need a Premier to be able to do her job. And she has done something which a few years ago a whole lot of people would have thought this was an absolute longshot, and we weren't going to get there. We’re there, it’s exciting and good on her.

JAYES: It wasn't a long shot in the end. It was really no surprise in the last couple of days and weeks.

BURKE: You’ve still got to run the final lap.

JAYES: I know. Cynicism. Got to get rid of that. The lockdown’s getting to me. All right, Tony Burke, thank you.