TRANSCRIPT - DOORSTOP, PARLIAMENT HOUSE - SUNDAY, 27 NOVEMBER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
DOORSTOP
27 NOVEMBER 2022
SUBJECTS: Secure Jobs, Better Pay Bill, former Prime Minister censure motion, Victorian State election results
SPEAKER: Good morning.
SPEAKER: G'day Minister.
THE HON TONY BURKE MP, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: How are you? Kevin's good to go?
SPEAKER: Yep.
BURKE: Okay, so really pleased to say that the government is now confident that Secure Jobs, Better Pay will be passing the Parliament this year. That means this year the Parliament will be making a decision for job security, making a decision for closing the gender pay gap, and most importantly as well, making a decision to get wages moving. Wages have been stagnant for nearly a decade. People right now - real wages are less than what they were ten years ago. And we've been wanting to get to a situation where we could get this bill through this year, every section of the bill, nothing's been cut out. There's a significant number of amendments that are being made, and I'm very grateful to Senator David Pocock for the cooperation and working that through.
JOURNALIST: So what amendments have you reached with Senator Pocock? What's he decided on to get it over the line?
BURKE: So we're adopting the recommendations of a Senate inquiry in the main, and additional to that, there are further protections for businesses with fewer than 50 employers that effectively, rather than them having to argue why they shouldn't be party of a multi employer agreement, the onus would be on those wanting to include them as to why they should be there. So that makes it much easier for those businesses fewer than 50. And we also have a situation for people where at the lower end there's a supported stream, it's often referred to as a low-paid stream, where there'll be a capacity for the government to guarantee that particular industries are part of that. And that's making sure we don't end up with a situation where low-paid workers inadvertently miss out where we had intended to include them.
JOURNALIST: Does that mean that we won't need to sit on Saturday?
BURKE: Look, this is not the only bill before the Senate. The Senate is still sitting on Friday. And so we're working on the basis that if the Senate is sitting, in case they amend anything, we'll still need to be here on the Saturday.
JOURNALIST: Just to simplify it a bit, does this mean the deal that you've reached with Pocock, that if you're a business which employs 50 people or more, essentially you might be involved in multi employer bargaining? Because it wasn't originally the issue was that 15 employees or more is it increased to 50?
BURKE: No, there's an increase from 15 to 20.
JOURNALIST: So how did you get from 15 to 20?
BURKE: 15 to 20's happened. And so if you're 20 employees or fewer, then you can simply say, don't want to be part of this. Now, realistically, there'll be lots of small businesses who opt into a different stream, the cooperative stream, and they'll do that because there'll be effectively off the shelf agreements available, where it gives them the flexibility, a much simpler document than the award, and also gives an improved pay for their employees. And you will find a lot of small businesses grabbing that. I've had it for a lot of years, people arguing, even when I first arrived here, I was shadow small business and right back then, small business groups were saying, "can't we have something simpler than the award?" That will now be possible through the cooperative stream.
JOURNALIST: And so what does it mean for businesses with 50 plus?
BURKE: Okay, for all businesses 50 plus as well there's now an additional test as to whether or not the business is reasonably comparable to the other businesses in the multi employer group. And so businesses large and small have been arguing for that to be clarified. That's part of the agreement with Senator David Pocock. But it's also the case that in having to prove that it's a bit easier if you're fewer than 50, even if an employee doesn't want to be part of the agreement.
JOURNALIST: So, what's 'reasonably comparable'? Does that mean, obviously from the same industry or how does that...?
BURKE: Look, it will take into account the nature of the business, but these are common sense decisions that are taken by the Fair Work Commission and it's traditionally not been as much of a legalistic jurisdiction. It's very much a common sense jurisdiction where people can turn up without having to pay for lawyers. It's that sort of place.
JOURNALIST: So are you expecting these amendments to go into the Parliament tomorrow? Do you expect it to be passed by, let's say, the middle of the week?
BURKE: The Senate programming now is in the hands of Katy Gallagher as the manager of government business there. But certainly now we're in a situation where I can say I'm very confident that Secure Jobs, Better Pay will be law this year.
JOURNALIST: And how about, I suppose, all the other legislation that's being looked at this week? National Integrity Commission, Territory Rights, are you expecting those to fly through?
BURKE: I've never seen a conscience vote fly through, so I expect there'll be some sort of debate.
JOURNALIST: On Territory Rights?
BURKE: I think they've scheduled that on the Thursday. But I'm not across the Senate program the same way Katy Gallagher would be. In terms of the Anti-Corruption Commission, I have no doubt at all that we'll get the Anti-Corruption Commission passed. Whether there's further Senate amendments or not, I don't know as to that. But either way, there's a whole lot of other smaller pieces of legislation and we can't have a situation where the Senate stayed the extra day and the House of Reps then doesn't follow through to make sure that we can receive the amendments so that laws can be made.
JOURNALIST: Just back on IR, have you spoken to the business groups like ACCI, BCA, Small Business Council about these changes that you've announced? And what has been the reaction?
BURKE: The final agreement with Senator David Pocock, we only got there at 8:30 last night, so it's why I'm in Canberra for the weekend. There's been lots of letters, lots of conversations, lots of meetings that have gone back and forth over the last few days. As that conversation has been happening both for myself as Minister, and Senator David Pocock, in his own right, have been consulting on the different ideas. So the various ideas that have landed today, business groups and unions have all had a line of sight as that's been developed. But in terms of the announcement of the final position, that's something that's been made this morning.
JOURNALIST: Just on the censure motion of Scott Morrison, that's going to happen tomorrow, what does that mean? Is that just slap on the wrist or?
BURKE: Well, it's pretty serious. It's very rare for the Parliament to censure a Member of Parliament. It's a very rare thing to happen. I'm not sure as to it ever having happened to a previous Prime Minister, I'm not sure about. I'm certainly - there's no example that comes to mind. It is one of the most serious things that the House of Representatives can do. And so no one would take it lightly, that's why we're not getting ahead of the Cabinet meeting tomorrow. But bear in mind the comments that Justice Bell has made in that report, where she has reiterated what had previously been said by the Solicitor General, that what Scott Morrison did, and effectively what his team enabled, fundamentally undermined the principles of responsible government in Australia. Now, that's an extraordinary thing to say about any Member of Parliament and an absolutely breathtaking thing to say about a former Prime Minister. That's how bad things got.
And I've just got to add, it's not like this came out of the blue. It's shocking. But it also happened after those around him had allowed him to function with a Cabinet committee where he was the only member. Those around him had voted with him every time he tried to silence other Members of Parliament from saying anything he didn't want to hear, from the way legislation would appear and be debated and then put through without anyone even having seen it. The way the Liberals governed was breathtakingly irresponsible. And what Scott Morrison did with the ministries was the next step in something that those around him had already given the tick off to.
JOURNALIST: And I'm assuming that Labour will back in these six recommendations that Virginia Bell has made to increase accountability and the transparency on these Ministerial roles?
BURKE: The Prime Minister certainly leant in on that yesterday, the decision-making process -
JOURNALIST: Are you expecting the Opposition to back that in?
BURKE: I have no expectations of this Opposition. I look up and down their line and length and see people who helped enable what Scott Morrison did, people who gave him the confidence to behave in that way, and when even yesterday their big issue was to say, how dare members of Parliament have to turn up on a Saturday. When it comes to being out of touch, I just have no expectations of them.
JOURNALIST: Just one quick one on the Victorian election if that's okay. What is your reaction to the Green's doubling their numbers, the teals picking up seats? Are the problems with the Liberal Party's brand given results of what's happened down there?
BURKE: Yeah. Look, in fairness, when I said what I was doing last night, it means I wasn't watching the election coverage. I guess the best I can say is this. I congratulate Premier Daniel Andrews. Getting a third term is always a difficult thing to be able to do. And I think what Premier Andrews said this morning, that the politics in Victoria might be divided, but the Victorian people are not particularly divided, was borne out in those results yesterday, I might leave it at that.
JOURNALIST: Thank you.
ENDS