TRANSCRIPT - TELEVISION INTERVIEW - SKY NEWS WITH LAURA JAYES - THURSDAY, 10 MARCH 2022

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH LAURA JAYES
THURSDAY, 10 MARCH 2022

SUBJECT: Defence

LAURA JAYES, HOST: Let's go to the Shadow Industrial Relations Minister Tony Burke. He joins us live from Sydney now. We've got this speech at 12.30 so you're sandwiched between that and this announcement we heard from the government, from the Prime Minister, a little earlier today. Essentially $38 billion, more troops, but it won't happen for 20 years. What is Labor's position on this announcement today? Do you broadly agree with it?

TONY BURKE, MANAGER OF OPPOSITION BUSINESS: Look, we keep defence as a bipartisan issue. In terms of today's announcement, I've got to say, I'm very mindful that there was a white paper introduced in 2016. And in that there were workforce targets. The government have missed every one of those targets. They have missed their workforce targets every single year since 2016. And now, on the eve of an election, they announced a new one. Now, what the capacity is, and why they've pushed it out 18 years. And then for the next two years, it's only 200 a year. You know, the concept of increasing the number of people in the Defence Force is a good one. The record of Mr Morrison in terms of making announcements and not delivering - he made an announcement on exactly this area in 2016. He hasn't delivered every single year. Now, in the final weeks leading up to a federal election, he sets a new announcement that is what's meant to happen in 18 years’ time. If after a decade of him not doing what he said he would he then won office for the next 20 years. So you know, it's hard to take what he has announced today too seriously.

JAYES: Well that's the point, though, isn't it? Because you said that defence policy is largely bipartisan but it hasn't been. I mean, we see today the government attacking Labor for its 1.5% of GDP spend. And then Labor saying, you know, like you just did about procurement, that they have failed every single step of the way. Is this the problem? Is this where we are at the moment? Without submarines, without frigates, without the right Defence Force in place?

BURKE: Well, first of all, just in terms of Australian defence spending. The average of Australian defence spending when we were last in office as a percentage of GDP was 1.75. Under John Howard, it was 1.78. So we're not talking about a particularly significant difference there. You've just referred to procurement, where the issue of the quality of the spend is really important. And I don't know that you should ever take credit for spending that was on contracts that were then cancelled. Or take credit for the fact when spending decisions leads to a capability gap, which the government still hasn't said how they would fill, where we get the expiry date of the current submarines and then a capability gap of some years before the first of the new ones comes online. So to look at dollars on its own I don't think is smart. But the claim that's made about Labor in that respect doesn't stack up. What matters though, is that we look at the fact that the security environment for Australia in the world has changed. Both China and Russia now are more assertive. And if you look at Ukraine, you can specifically say more aggressive than anything that we've seen for quite some time. That does mean you need a more significant focus on Australian defence spending. That's why Labor's committed to going beyond the 2 per cent of GDP. That's in our platform. It's a commitment we made some time ago. And the global experience of recent times just shows that was the right call.

JAYES: So $38 billion announced today by the government. I don't know how that ends up in budgets over 20 years. But anyway, do you know what that would take spending to? And is that on about par with what Labor's talking about?

BURKE: You've got a mix of a series of different areas of expenditure in terms of going beyond the 2 per cent. So I can't give you everything in advance of the speech today –

JAYES: Oh are there surprises are there? Have we got some big grand ideas and massive spending plans?

BURKE: Well you just asked me to go to what's in the speech and what I'll say is Labor on these issues is methodical and responsible. We have not been looking for a political fight on this. Mr Morrison has. It's not in Australia's national interests for Australia to look like a divided nation on this area. The references that I gave to you before in terms of areas where their contracts have failed, in terms of areas where they haven't delivered - I offer that in response to you referring to where Mr Morrison has wanted to take this this morning. Can I just say: it is in the interests of those countries which are becoming more aggressive and assertive around the world that nations like Australia and our allies look divided. That is not in Australia's national interest. It's in the national interests of people who don't want Australia and their allies to be strong. There is nothing smart in what Mr Morrison has done today in terms of the Australian national interest. And so what will you see today? You'll see from Anthony Albanese, putting himself forward as the alternative Prime Minister of Australia, showing what it is to be responsible.

JAYES: Tony Burke, thanks for your time.

BURKE: Great to be back.

ENDS