TRANSCRIPT - TV INTERVIEW - ABC NEWS BREAKFAST - WEDNESDAY, 11 MAY 2022

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC NEWS BREAKFAST
WEDNESDAY, 11 MAY 2022

SUBJECTS: 2022 Election; National Leaders Debate; Labor’s Wage Growth Policy; Labor’s Support For Low Income Workers; Morrison’s Failure On Wage Growth; Inflation.

MICHAEL ROWLAND, HOST: The Shadow Industrial Relations Minister and also the Manager of Opposition Business in the House of Reps, Tony Burke. Mr Burke, good morning to you.

TONY BURKE, SHADOW MINISTER FOR INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS: Good morning, Michael.

ROWLAND: Why is Labor now formally backing a 5.1 per cent increase in the minimum wage?

BURKE: For nearly a decade, this government has had low wages as a deliberate design feature of their economic management. They wanted to deliberately keep wages low, and they have. Labor wants to get wages moving again and we will. We cannot have a situation when everything's going up, except wages, and people keep going backwards. And that's what Anthony Albanese made clear yesterday. The extraordinary thing about this story is not that Labor wants to make sure that wages keep pace with the cost of living. The extraordinary thing about this story is Scott Morrison doesn't. The outrage we're seeing from him and his ministers at the moment, as though somehow it would be a terrible thing for Australians to stop going backwards, really says it all that he doesn't understand anything about what's happening in the household budget at the moment.

ROWLAND: A lot of business operators, a lot of business owners also thought it was extraordinary as well, Tony Burke, in the sense that they are now worried about how they'll pay a potential 5.1 per cent increase.

BURKE: Look, I've got a good relationship with a lot of those business organisations that have been in the media. And there's different issues in terms of productivity that we've had very constructive conversations about. But in terms of the annual wage review, I do have to say, some of those commentators, most of them actually, for nearly a decade have been saying we can't have wage increases because inflation is low. And now they're saying we can't have wage increases because inflation is high. The reality is…

ROWLAND: But they are not saying that. They are saying that they want wage increases, for instance, the Chamber of Commerce and Industry is backing a 3 per cent wage rise from minimum wage earners. It argues that is more realistic.

BURKE: Sorry, Michael, that's a pay cut. If inflation is running at 5.1 per cent, then the figure you've just nominated there is a pay cut. The people who are most reliant on the annual wage review are the people on the lowest wages. The minimum wage in Australia is $20.33 an hour. These are the people who are the heroes of the pandemic, who have kept the economy running during a time where a whole lot of us on higher incomes were able to work from laptops, but they weren't. Turned up, put themselves in harm's way in different ways, particularly in the early stages of the pandemic and they're the people who find it the hardest to make ends meet. They're the people who are in the least capacity to draw down on savings and they're the people who more than anyone need to make sure that wages can keep up with the cost of living and they don't keep going backwards.

ROWLAND: Up until Anthony Albanese responded to that question at a media conference yesterday, Labor's position on the Fair Work Commission case was it wasn't going to back any figure. Was Anthony Albanese freelancing in responding that way?

BURKE: Oh not at all you've heard us, all of us on many occasions for a long time now, say people can't keep going backwards.

ROWLAND: Yeah, but not backing a particular figure is what I'm saying.

BURKE: The figure yesterday is the figure that if you fall below, people are going backwards. Like for a long time, we've been saying people can't keep going backwards and as I say yesterday, the question was put as to the figure, which if you fall below people would start going backwards. So it's unsurprising that Labor wants to make sure that wages can keep pace with the cost of living but as I say, he wasn't questioned on it yesterday, because he didn't face the media scrum again, after Anthony Albanese then answered that question, but today, it's on Scott Morrison to explain why he believes Australian workers should go backwards because let's not forget in the debate the other night - it wasn't only that we know now his position is that real wages should fall, when he was asked directly whether Australians should even be at least paid the minimum wage, his response was, it depends. We have a Prime Minister here, who's not only refusing to support wages keeping pace with the cost of living. He's also refusing to back in there being a safety net for a whole lot of workers at all.

ROWLAND: The Prime Minister has responded through The Australian late yesterday where he has described Anthony Albanese's comments as ‘economic vandalism’, you should factor, surely you would have factored in any increase of that magnitude by the Fair Work Commission would have clear flow on effects to inflation and then interest rates.

BURKE: Well have a look at what both the Treasury Secretary and the RBA have said with respect to inflationary pressures, where both of them have made clear that you can go to inflation plus productivity - productivity is currently running at 1 per cent. And if wage increases are in line with inflation plus productivity, then you should not be having inflationary pressures. Last year, for example, when inflation was forecast to run with a number with a one in front of it, the annual wage review still put forward a wage increase of two and a half percent. It's not unheard of at all, for the annual wage review, to go in front of the inflation, so long as you don't go inflation plus productivity, it doesn't have an inflationary impact. What's happening now is when people are finding it harder than ever, when the cost of living is in fact going backwards for a whole lot of wage earners across the country. It's at this moment that Mr. Morrison is refusing to say that wages should even keep up.

ROWLAND: Okay, before you go the third and final leaders debate is on tonight. We are into the, or close to the homestretch of the campaign. How important is this debate for Anthony Albanese in your view?

BURKE: Well, today every one of the debates - you know, the debates matter, particularly because for three years in the Parliament, Mr. Morrison has refused to debate Anthony Albanese. It has been for as long as I've been in Parliament and for a whole lot longer than that, customary that at different points during Question Time questions would move into a debate between the leaders. Mr. Morrison, since Anthony Albanese has become leader, has not allowed that to occur once. So to see them go head to head in that way, it does matter. But can I say even when they're not facing off against each other the contrast is clear. In terms of household budgets, everything's going up again, except wages. Anthony Albanese has a plan to be able to deal with that so that people can keep pace. Mr. Morrison thinks low wages are a deliberate design feature, and he's quite comfortable with people going backwards.

ROWLAND: Tony Burke in Sydney, thanks for joining us on News Breakfast.

BURKE: Great to talk.

ENDS